As always, this podcast is my favorite thing about every other Friday. Another FASCINATING episode. I have a question... how much of what the "bad guys" do do they actually consider bad and how much do you think they actually think they are the "good guys." In movies, it always feels so much more simple because we know who the good guys are and the bad guys, and the bad guys seem to know and accept as fact that they are the bad guys! But in real life it seems a bit more complicated than that... when you look at the charts of some of these people who I (and I may be overstepping, but I image you, too) consider to be doing really quite evil work, have they gone off their path? Are they living out karma? Are they living the life that is seen in their birth chart? Do you believe all aggressive/harmful acts are the result of someone who is experiencing pain and is acting from their wound, or are there just people who it is really part of their make up to act the way that they do? Ok that was a lot... don't feel like you have to answer in this post, but these are definitely questions that come up while listening to you ladies! THANK YOU!
I will preface with saying that I have only about 15 minutes, but if I don't respond now, it won't be for another few days before I have time and I don't want to leave you hanging.
First, what I am about to share is based on my own life experience and observation, as well as many conversations with teachers and guides far wiser than I.
So, the way I see it at this point in my life, it is improbable to me that a person is all one thing, good or bad. Humanity exists on a continuum, and no one is static. If we were, then we wouldn't need a spiritual practice. We could meditate once and be enlightened and then poof, move on to doing whatever we think we are supposed to do once we're done being good.
However, I do think some of us start closer to the inherently pure goodness at humanity's core than others, so even if they fall away from their good center at some point (which, as I noted, we all will do to some extent), the path back to, and then further in, is more easily traveled for those people.
As for the rest of what you and EG have already discussed, the reason I ultimately rejected my studies in modern psychological astrology was because I do not believe that Nature, which is to say the Cosmos, needs any justification for itself. You already know my background, which includes a workable understanding of Western medicine, and in particular, psychiatry, so I am respectful of and am conversant in, taking a clinical approach to understanding the inner lives of humans, and as EG says, their "needs".
But to me, all specialties of science and sects of religion are merely systems of explanation and conveyances to a relationship with what none of us as humans that exist forever on a continuum, could ever stand in one place and say, "I see it all now."
There are practical reasons I rejected that study, too, but maybe that's for an episode down the line. In any case, when EG was learning astrology, she went to one of the most knowledgeable, and impressively learned, teachers of her day, and even though some astrologers will shit themselves when I say this, I think she surpassed him because of who she is innately and where she stands as her own set point on the human continuum. Also, she is among the most accurate and precise mundane astrologers anywhere that I have ever found. She knows her stuff!
Since the late 80s, there has been an important renaissance in the astrology that preceded so-called modern astrology. It is rooted in these many years since of scholarly translations of Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, and Sanskrit texts previously unknown to us. These texts demonstrate humanity's sophisticated "scientific", if you will, understanding of the heavens, and how that understanding was central to pre-Christian philosophies such as Stoicism, which I suppose is probably most akin to how I think.
Studying these texts, thinking outside of orthodox religious and scientific bounds, I am led to answer your questions about good and evil this way: earth is where we work out what matters. Matter is from the Latin for "mother" (mater). We are here to understand how we matter to the divine, to what is greater than us. I believe far more in fate than EG -- I definitely read charts as though I am looking at what are karmic debts and credits. Which is to say I certainly believe in reincarnation, and to say that when people do things that we might "judge" as evil, I view it as people being faced with the consequences of past choices that they didn't resolve previously. If you think about that, it's pretty profound. It means we have agency, but we also will have to face the consequences of whatever choices we make until we resolve it and bring whatever darkness is there into balance with light. The yin and yang of existence.
The most important take away and then I have to jump...Earth is sub-lunary; it is not a place of love and light. It's a place where we work out the shit. It's the place where all four elements are in balance enough to support life and so gives us the opportunity to keep moving along the continuum until we find balance. And it's holographic: so, when one of us gets it right, there is a way all of us gets it right. And vice versa.
It's a place of density, which makes it hard to see the bigger picture. And think about how that makes the stars part of the mattering, too: when we "Look up" we remember the light and we can let it call us toward it.
In sum, on earth, expect humans to do shitty things. Also expect humans to choose to rise above shitty things until humanity has evolved enough to not need to do so many shitty things. Happy and healthy.xx
THANK YOU for your profound questions -- and for your appreciation. When we get to the point in the evolution of our show where we can take live questions, this would be a good place to start. Whitney & I can respond in detail to yours in our next episode, which will also include a discussion of the upcoming eclipses and how they are reflected in the headlines. But briefly...I'm a modern psychological astrologer, so I'm trained to look at planetary patterns as symbols of what a person NEEDS in order to feel fulfilled. When we know what they need, we can anticipate what they are likely to DO when presented with a challenge or an opportunity. What we can't determine -- without talking to someone directly or -- if they're a public figure -- reading about them in the news or history books -- is what Level they are operating on. And by Level, I'm talking about Level of intellect, emotional maturity, empathy, consciousness, etc. Level can be affected by genetics and/or conditioning. Every planetary pattern has a shadow potential as well as an enlightened one...and I do believe we get to decide -- though often our conditioning/life experience makes it tough to choose the high road! Rather than offer further explanation here, let's wait until our next podcast to flesh it out. Until then, I can offer a case study which may begin to answer your questions. Google "Anna Delvey horoscope" and you'll find a three-part video series called "Interpreting Anna," as in the fake German heiress who was the subject of the Netflix series "Inventing Anna." The video series features me and fellow modern psychological astrologer Kathy Rose breaking down Delvey's horoscope to help viewers understand why she is the way she is. Looking forward to your further thoughts...thanks for listening and asking such great questions!
That makes so much sense and I hadn’t thought about it that way! So in addition to fate (or something) + free will for an individual, it can then be complicated by their programming too, yeah? I know for me, at least, even if I know what the high road may be, it can still be very hard to take that road. Then the shame can set in. And then we find the people who are most outspoken about “bad behavior” are the very ones who’ve engaged in it themselves and their internal sensation of shame becomes an external declaration of how bad it is! (Matt Gaetz for example from this podcast episode). VERY excited to hear your thoughts next time!
And I will most definitely check out the video series!!! That is amazing! I just finished the show on Netflix and can’t stop Googling her… 🤣 Thanks again!
As always, this podcast is my favorite thing about every other Friday. Another FASCINATING episode. I have a question... how much of what the "bad guys" do do they actually consider bad and how much do you think they actually think they are the "good guys." In movies, it always feels so much more simple because we know who the good guys are and the bad guys, and the bad guys seem to know and accept as fact that they are the bad guys! But in real life it seems a bit more complicated than that... when you look at the charts of some of these people who I (and I may be overstepping, but I image you, too) consider to be doing really quite evil work, have they gone off their path? Are they living out karma? Are they living the life that is seen in their birth chart? Do you believe all aggressive/harmful acts are the result of someone who is experiencing pain and is acting from their wound, or are there just people who it is really part of their make up to act the way that they do? Ok that was a lot... don't feel like you have to answer in this post, but these are definitely questions that come up while listening to you ladies! THANK YOU!
Hi, Kali:
I will preface with saying that I have only about 15 minutes, but if I don't respond now, it won't be for another few days before I have time and I don't want to leave you hanging.
First, what I am about to share is based on my own life experience and observation, as well as many conversations with teachers and guides far wiser than I.
So, the way I see it at this point in my life, it is improbable to me that a person is all one thing, good or bad. Humanity exists on a continuum, and no one is static. If we were, then we wouldn't need a spiritual practice. We could meditate once and be enlightened and then poof, move on to doing whatever we think we are supposed to do once we're done being good.
However, I do think some of us start closer to the inherently pure goodness at humanity's core than others, so even if they fall away from their good center at some point (which, as I noted, we all will do to some extent), the path back to, and then further in, is more easily traveled for those people.
As for the rest of what you and EG have already discussed, the reason I ultimately rejected my studies in modern psychological astrology was because I do not believe that Nature, which is to say the Cosmos, needs any justification for itself. You already know my background, which includes a workable understanding of Western medicine, and in particular, psychiatry, so I am respectful of and am conversant in, taking a clinical approach to understanding the inner lives of humans, and as EG says, their "needs".
But to me, all specialties of science and sects of religion are merely systems of explanation and conveyances to a relationship with what none of us as humans that exist forever on a continuum, could ever stand in one place and say, "I see it all now."
There are practical reasons I rejected that study, too, but maybe that's for an episode down the line. In any case, when EG was learning astrology, she went to one of the most knowledgeable, and impressively learned, teachers of her day, and even though some astrologers will shit themselves when I say this, I think she surpassed him because of who she is innately and where she stands as her own set point on the human continuum. Also, she is among the most accurate and precise mundane astrologers anywhere that I have ever found. She knows her stuff!
Since the late 80s, there has been an important renaissance in the astrology that preceded so-called modern astrology. It is rooted in these many years since of scholarly translations of Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, and Sanskrit texts previously unknown to us. These texts demonstrate humanity's sophisticated "scientific", if you will, understanding of the heavens, and how that understanding was central to pre-Christian philosophies such as Stoicism, which I suppose is probably most akin to how I think.
Studying these texts, thinking outside of orthodox religious and scientific bounds, I am led to answer your questions about good and evil this way: earth is where we work out what matters. Matter is from the Latin for "mother" (mater). We are here to understand how we matter to the divine, to what is greater than us. I believe far more in fate than EG -- I definitely read charts as though I am looking at what are karmic debts and credits. Which is to say I certainly believe in reincarnation, and to say that when people do things that we might "judge" as evil, I view it as people being faced with the consequences of past choices that they didn't resolve previously. If you think about that, it's pretty profound. It means we have agency, but we also will have to face the consequences of whatever choices we make until we resolve it and bring whatever darkness is there into balance with light. The yin and yang of existence.
The most important take away and then I have to jump...Earth is sub-lunary; it is not a place of love and light. It's a place where we work out the shit. It's the place where all four elements are in balance enough to support life and so gives us the opportunity to keep moving along the continuum until we find balance. And it's holographic: so, when one of us gets it right, there is a way all of us gets it right. And vice versa.
It's a place of density, which makes it hard to see the bigger picture. And think about how that makes the stars part of the mattering, too: when we "Look up" we remember the light and we can let it call us toward it.
In sum, on earth, expect humans to do shitty things. Also expect humans to choose to rise above shitty things until humanity has evolved enough to not need to do so many shitty things. Happy and healthy.xx
THANK YOU for your profound questions -- and for your appreciation. When we get to the point in the evolution of our show where we can take live questions, this would be a good place to start. Whitney & I can respond in detail to yours in our next episode, which will also include a discussion of the upcoming eclipses and how they are reflected in the headlines. But briefly...I'm a modern psychological astrologer, so I'm trained to look at planetary patterns as symbols of what a person NEEDS in order to feel fulfilled. When we know what they need, we can anticipate what they are likely to DO when presented with a challenge or an opportunity. What we can't determine -- without talking to someone directly or -- if they're a public figure -- reading about them in the news or history books -- is what Level they are operating on. And by Level, I'm talking about Level of intellect, emotional maturity, empathy, consciousness, etc. Level can be affected by genetics and/or conditioning. Every planetary pattern has a shadow potential as well as an enlightened one...and I do believe we get to decide -- though often our conditioning/life experience makes it tough to choose the high road! Rather than offer further explanation here, let's wait until our next podcast to flesh it out. Until then, I can offer a case study which may begin to answer your questions. Google "Anna Delvey horoscope" and you'll find a three-part video series called "Interpreting Anna," as in the fake German heiress who was the subject of the Netflix series "Inventing Anna." The video series features me and fellow modern psychological astrologer Kathy Rose breaking down Delvey's horoscope to help viewers understand why she is the way she is. Looking forward to your further thoughts...thanks for listening and asking such great questions!
That makes so much sense and I hadn’t thought about it that way! So in addition to fate (or something) + free will for an individual, it can then be complicated by their programming too, yeah? I know for me, at least, even if I know what the high road may be, it can still be very hard to take that road. Then the shame can set in. And then we find the people who are most outspoken about “bad behavior” are the very ones who’ve engaged in it themselves and their internal sensation of shame becomes an external declaration of how bad it is! (Matt Gaetz for example from this podcast episode). VERY excited to hear your thoughts next time!
And I will most definitely check out the video series!!! That is amazing! I just finished the show on Netflix and can’t stop Googling her… 🤣 Thanks again!